Nigeria is 65; how would you rate our journey so far?
I am disappointed that we are still where we are at 65. The truth is that Nigeria is still far below the level we expected it to be. In every sector, we are behind. In terms of development, which includes education, security, and economy, we are far behind where we ought to be. So many things are wrong with us. Take, for instance, education; in our days, we had sound education. But today, when someone presents himself or herself as a professor, you wonder which university he got his professorship from when he speaks to you. We have half-baked graduates all over the place.
In terms of security, people are still being kidnapped on our streets today. When I was a kid, I used to travel to and fro from Lagos alone. Nothing happened to me throughout that time, but when I became a grandpa, I was kidnapped from my farm here in Ilu-Abo. There is no running water anywhere. We used to have running water here in Akure, but that has become a thing of the past. There is no central sewage system in most parts of the country apart from Abuja. The question is, what has happened? What has changed in the quality of leadership at all levels?
I had the privilege of reviewing Papa Ajasin’s autobiography after I came out of detention in 1999. And I read in the book that Papa Adekunle Ajasin, when he became the governor of Ondo State, had two cars of his own, which he took with him to the Government House. Soon after getting there, he said he gave one of the cars to his party, the UPN. They had no car, so he gave them one of his cars. Soon thereafter, the only remaining car, the engine knocked. And Papa Ajasin said he didn’t have money to repair that car. The governor of the state did not have the money to repair his car, which broke down.
And that was the situation by the time the military took over in 1983. And Papa Ajasin was stranded in the government house. He had no means of returning to his home in Owo. He had no car. Today, if you are made chairman of a local government council, within three months, you will have two beautiful cars.
Why didn’t Papa Ajasin have those cars? Because he concentrated the state’s money on the welfare of the people and on free education in the state. And with the limited resources they had, they electrified more than a hundred communities. They built a dam for water, etc. He established Ifon ceramics, Ikole brickworks, and set up Owena bank within four years with very little revenue they had. Everything was spent on the welfare of the people. That’s why Papa could not afford to repair his own car. That has changed now.
I don’t know of any governor today, in any part of Nigeria, who, after leaving office, will not be a billionaire.
Are you sure?
Yes! I think that is becoming the standard. And that is precisely why things are the way they are. When the heads at all levels, federal, state, and local, are taking care of themselves, of course, the people are getting poorer, by definition.
Has the country done well in terms of economy, security, and employment?
I’m sorry I’m painting a very sad picture. But that’s the reality. I’m not saying there was no progress since independence, of course, from one University College in 1960 in Ibadan, today we probably have five or six hundred universities. I think many of them are so-called. The number of graduates has increased a thousand-fold. Forget about the quality of what is coming out.
On employment, in your final year at the University College, Ibadan, major companies would come from Lagos and Ibadan to interview students about to graduate. And you would be offered employment before your graduation. You just had to pick and choose. But today, most of the companies have left Nigeria.
Isn’t that sad?
Companies like Dunlop and so many others. Many of them have relocated to Ghana. Why? Because this environment is hostile to business. Power is unstable. It’s not affordable. There’s no security. Infrastructure is lacking. The road is bad. So, all in all, we’ve been very poor.
Meanwhile, our population is growing. The demand for jobs is growing. The demand for everything is increasing. Our capacity to produce is diminishing. It’s only in the north that the state government still gives agriculture a lot of attention. The governors have a lot of tractors for them. They give them a lot of inputs, including irrigation water, herbicides, and fertilizers that will enable their farmers to produce enough food for themselves and for others. But down here in the south, it is as if this agriculture no longer exists.
I grade two roads here every year. From Ilu-Abo to my farm, that’s about 20 kilometres. I grade it with my money, and there are eight culverts there, which I built there in 1997 with my money. Till tomorrow, that road is not tarred. Another road from Imafon to my farm is about 13 or 14 kilometres. I’ve been grading the road since 1985, 1986. Recently, they said they were going to tar the road. Two years later, they haven’t surfaced one kilometre. In fact, I was shocked that the people working there were using diggers and shovels to dig the gutter. Not a single payloader, low loader, excavator, or tipper.
So, this is what you find all over the place. The welfare of the people has gone out of focus. The new generation of politicians now takes care of itself. I suspect they regard the money in the treasury as theirs. And they think that whatever they do for the people is a favour, for which we should be eternally grateful to them.
When Awolowo was the premier and Ajasin was the governor, if a road work was completed, they just opened it, and people started using it. But after Ajasin, it will be a big ceremony. We’ll spend millions of Naira again celebrating the opening of the road. Money that could have been used to repair primary schools or supply hospitals with drugs. We will spend the money celebrating the opening of the road. I don’t know where that came from. We celebrate the unimportant and ignore that which is strategic.
We have not done as well as we are capable of doing. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying absolutely. Of course, the GDP has been growing. I’m an economist. The national income is growing. Per capita income is growing. But that’s what we call growth without development. Economic parameters will be growing. Total GDP is growing. National income is growing. Foreign exchange earnings are growing. But the ordinary person remains poor. So, the growth has not percolated to his level. The content and character of the growth are not designed to improve the welfare of the people. The two can coexist—that is, growth with no development.
What do you think are the issues making it difficult for the country to move forward?
It’s leadership. It’s simple. There is no rocket science about it. It’s leadership. Look, I told you Papa Ajasin could not repair his personal car. He could have taken government money to do so. By the way, Papa Ajasin did not have any security vote. Because, as I said, I read, I presented his autobiography. He said the first budget he had was prepared by the Ministry of Finance and handed over to all the elected governors. So, he said in that first year, the military prepared the budget. There was little provision for security. I think he said he spent N20,000 out of it by giving it to the police to repair their Land Rover. He did not touch the rest of the money. And in subsequent years, when he prepared his own budget, he did not make any security provisions.
Why can’t we have such leaders now?
It is the quality of leadership and their orientation, focus, but their orientation, focus, and priority. Ajasin, when he was governor, some members of the House of Assembly said they wanted to impeach him. Why? Because they said in other states, if a governor sends a bill to the House of Assembly to be passed into law, he would accompany the bill with money to be shared among the legislators. But Baba did not add one kobo to the bills he sent to them. And that their colleagues in other states were doing very well. They were hungry here. So, they would impeach Ajasin for not giving them money to pass the law.
What did the governor say then?
Baba said you are elected by your people to pass laws and you are paid your salary and allowances for passing those laws. In any case, he had no security vote on where to give you money to induce you to do your statutory duty. Some of them fought Baba throughout his tenure. However, essentially, they probed all the state governments, and Ondo State was the only state where no politician was put to jail because Baba did not give security money to anybody. It was the sharing of security money that put many politicians in prison in other states. That was when they thanked Baba for refusing to give them money; otherwise, they would be in jail. That demonstrates what I’m talking about the quality of leadership. You must be committed to the welfare of others.
Can’t these problems be solved?
It can be solved. My personal view is that if you don’t have compassion for ordinary people, don’t go into politics. You must have compassion; you must genuinely feel concerned about their welfare. And you must want to do something to change it. I went into politics precisely for that reason. Having been a director of economic planning for Nigeria for several years and having discussed the development projects of all the states and all the federal ministers and parastatals, I got to know the economy of Nigeria inside out. And I got to know the potential of Nigeria for development. And it was paining me to the marrow that a country that is this rich, the people inside it continue to be this poor. That contradiction must be removed. That’s why I went into politics, that if I became president, I would use the natural resources to create, perhaps, the wealthiest country in Africa. We have the capacity; we have the resources.
We are the only country in Africa that has all the resources that others do not have.
Look at most of the countries. Zambia has copper. Ghana used to have some gold. South Africa, some gold. You go to the Middle East, what do they have? Crude oil. Saudi Arabia and Iraq have oil. But in Nigeria, we have everything. We have oil, we have gas, we have coal, we have iron, we have gold, we have lignite, we have uranium. No other country has all these resources inside its soil. We are the only ones as a nation.
Two, look at West Africa; in the area, Nigeria is a small country in terms of geographical area. Burkina Faso and Mali are huge desert republics, several times the size of Nigeria. But what is their population? More than 50% of the population of West Africa is in Nigeria. Why did God pack all those people into a relatively small country called Nigeria? Underneath whose soil you have all the resources in the world. Clearly, the divine intention for me is for these many people to use these many resources to create wealth, employment, and prosperity. That’s why I went into politics. Those resources are still there. The opportunities are still there. But this present generation has only focused on the oil money from Abuja to share.
I can tell you that the untapped gas resources of Nigeria, I’m not talking about gas associated with petroleum production. I’m talking about unassociated gas in Eket and elsewhere in Nigeria. In value terms, it’s much more than the value of all the oil we’ve ever produced, and will ever be produced.
In other words, our work is still ahead of us. Are the leaders thinking of that?
They are focused on oil money. Go to Abuja, let’s share the money. Question: How much money does any person need? If I give you N20 billion, you are in trouble. You will be running around on how to preserve it and make it bigger. We have no time to even begin to enjoy it.
So, a new generation has taken over?
Yes, a new generation that has not been brought up to respect the values and ethos of our people. Obafemi Awolowo said that when his father died, he could not continue school. He walked from Ekene to Abeokuta to go to a distant relation. The man allowed him to stay, but he told him that you would take care of yourself. So, Awolowo wakes up first thing in the morning and goes into the bush to look for firewood and put it in front of the house before going to school. It was the money he realized from the sale of the firewood that he used to educate himself. Now, a man who suffered like that to have an education would have said, I suffered to have an education; others must also suffer. But he said, No. No Yoruba person should ever again suffer to have an education the way I suffered. That is what is missing in our leaders now.
Is democracy actually working in Nigeria, especially when you look at the wastage of resources by politicians and the members of the National Assembly?
Firstly, let’s look at the way people are appointed to positions. There is voting in, but very little democracy. Democracy means that the will of the people prevails and determines who will rule them. But when there is massive rigging, you negotiate, it is open. So, it is money that determines who wins, not the will of the people. That is the truth. It is not perfect, but it is the civilian government with the combination of people’s will and money that is producing the government.
When you concentrate too much money in a few hands, you are encouraging waste. That is what is happening in Nigeria. Most powers and resources are held by the federal government. And when they look around, there is so much money. What do we do with it? But if you are to redistribute money and resources away from the centre to the sub-national entities, the states, the local governments, and the communities where people reside, where poverty is tangible, the people at the centre waste money. People at lower levels will have more money to spend on what is essential.
That brings us to the restructuring of Nigeria. The present structure can never serve us. It puts most powers and resources in the hands of the Federal government. It was a reaction by the military and some sections of Nigeria who felt that having a very strong federal government would keep Nigeria together. We have the money; we have guns, so sit together. But the federation is no federation if members are not there willingly. They cannot be happy with anything. And there is no tendency for them to want to go out later. But they thought it was putting the money in the hands of the federal government and other powers. A presidential form of government puts all the powers in one person’s hands.
I guess we copied America’s system?
In America, where they have been living about over the past four or five hundred years, they have succeeded in solving most of their basic problems. The roads are fine. The schools are good. The water flows. The light doesn’t go off. There is food. If you have no job, you have unemployment benefits that they provide for you. So, their basic problems are solved. Therefore, whoever is in power is unlikely to affect your standard of living in any significant way. But here, where we are still struggling with poverty, for food, for medicine, it’s crucial who is dispensing the resources, particularly in an environment where tribalism and all kinds of sentiment exist. Therefore, you cannot afford to put all the powers in the hands of one man. You need a more collegiate parliamentary form that moderates the excesses which we referred to.
Looking back at Nigeria’s history and the different regimes we’ve had, which regime do you think has been very beneficial to the country in terms of development?
Yakubu Gowon’s government.
How and why?
During Gowon’s time, we built all those ring roads around Lagos, and we built 17 airports instead of one or two. That was the time we started building universities, at least one in each state capital.
Are you really sure?
Gowon was distributing resources, universities, and roads all over the place. And being a minority, he did not favour any particular section at the expense of others. I know that because I was a senior officer in his regime. To me, Gowon’s government has been the most desirable.
Do you agree with those who say we should have just either the Senate or the House of Representatives alone?
We need a parliamentary form of government for many reasons. The first is that the government is collegiate. At the state level, you have the premier and the ministers who are appointed by the premier from the House of Assembly. People are already elected as leaders in their own right. Those are the ones who qualify to be ministers in his cabinet. So, you can’t just treat them as his employees. The governor cannot just go to the motor park and take the head tout or the head driver and say, “You’re minister of transport.” But in parliament, you must have won an election in your constituency to become a member of the government, meaning you’re already an established leader of recognition in your area before you can get into the House.
And therefore, the premier cannot just treat you anyhow. If he disagrees with you that you should leave his cabinet, you remain a member of the House. He didn’t put you in the House, so you remain an ordinary member of the House, and you can continue to criticize his government while you’re still in the House. Second, decisions are taken by the cabinet. The premier does not make decisions alone. Now, all these governors make decisions themselves, but in a parliamentary system, all decisions are taken by the cabinet, and all cabinet members are committed to it. So, when 20 people make a decision, it’s likely to be better than if it were taken by one man all the time. It’s also cheaper. If you want to be a premier, you win your election on your street in Akure, you’re in the House, and if the head of parliament picks you, then you become a minister or prime minister. You must have run your own election in the street, so you don’t need to go and do another election again.
Do you think the government of President Bola Tinubu is actually fighting corruption?
All governments claim they’re fighting corruption, but corruption has become so endemic, so grounded in our system, that it’s difficult to know who is fighting what. Take the police force, for example; money is allocated for the police command here in Ondo State, but half of the money doesn’t get here. Half of it disappears in Abuja, and those are the people you say should fight corruption. I don’t think you can find a single Nigerian policeman who will say he has never taken a bribe in his life.
I said so when I was campaigning for president on television that I have never taken a bribe in my life, and if there’s anybody who gave me or knows about me being given one, you should go public with it. I’m giving thanks to God who protected my mind from thinking of something, not to mention doing it. So, it’s endemic. Go to the minister’s office, and your file will disappear if you don’t give the messenger something. Some rationalize that because of widespread poverty, what you now call corruption is a means of redistributing income in a fairer way—that’s the justification of corruption.
But if you ask me, the best way to fight corruption is to show leadership by example. As I said when I was running for president, I will not take anybody’s money, and I will tell all my cabinet members that if they want to make money, they should resign and go do business. Here, if you take one Naira that is not yours, I will sack you, take the money from you, and return it to the police. We must demonstrate through our own actions, and you will be surprised how quickly it will percolate to the lower levels.
I’m saying this because I’ve done it before. When I retired from the civil service, I became the managing director of Nigeria Merchant Bank in 1981. I called my staff together and said, “I’ve just concluded my primary and first career as a civil servant, and I thank God I got to the top. This bank job is a transitional job for five years before I finally go to Akure.” I said, “So, whatever happens here, I will not allow it to destroy what I’ve done for 40 years. I don’t take bribes. Don’t take it for yourself. Don’t take it for me. If you take it and I know, I’ll take the money from you, and you’ll go to jail, and I’ll sack you.” In five years, there was no allegation of corruption or loss of money in my bank. Leadership makes a difference. Once they know you won’t do it, they won’t do it. That’s the best way to fight corruption—leadership by example and taking care of security agencies. Don’t have a police station with no vehicles or where policemen buy booths for themselves from their meagre salaries. Those are the practical ways of dealing with corruption. The leader himself must be transparently honest.
